Denouncing Anti-Asian Hate with Local Solutions
A Conversation with Solutions Journalist Heidi Shin
Portrait of Heidi Shin, originally published by The World from PRX.
Heidi Shin is a Boston-based writer and podcast / public radio producer who primarily covers stories on immigrant communities. Her work has appeared in several news outlets, including National Geographic, the BBC, the Washington Post, and the New York Times.
In her piece, “Oakland’s Chinatown finds solutions to hate crimes,” Shin follows the story of Sakhone Lasaphangthong, a member of the Community Ambassador Program based in Chinatown in Oakland, CA. Through this initiative, community members like Lasaphangthong assist fellow residents around the neighborhood and ensure that the streets of Chinatown are well kept and safe. During our interview, Shin explained her reporting process while covering the Chinatown Community Ambassador Program during the COVID-19 pandemic, as well as her position as an Asian American reporter when delving into stories related to anti-Asian hate and the Asian American community.
Michaela Zee: How did you find this story and what were your intentions for this piece?
Heidi Shin: Prior to reporting the story, for about a year, I had been following the rise in attacks against the Asian American Pacific Islander community. I had been in touch with people across the country who were involved in these circles: different nonprofits who are doing work in this area. I reached out to someone I knew in Oakland, California, specifically because I knew that there were a lot of interventions happening there that were not happening yet for the rest of the country. It was really important to me because I saw the numbers rising and the statistics going up, and it was overwhelming to hear. As a journalist covering this issue— but then for others in the country, too— if you don't see what's happening personally, the numbers just feel like a lot, honestly.
MZ: Besides interviewing sources, what other research did you do for this story?
HS: One of the things I had to do is convince editors that there was a surge in the rise of attacks. Before the pandemic, you didn’t see anyone tracking these numbers, right? So I had to find out, statistically, if this was really happening or not. Russell Jeung, who started the Stop AAPI Hate movement, was able to provide some of those numbers. I was interested in what was going on in Chinatowns in general—the dynamics of gentrification and what that meant locally, what neighborhood tensions looked like, what violence looked like, what hate crimes looked like—hate instances in these communities. So I did some general research about what development and gentrification and racism in Chinatowns look like. I talked to a number of different nonprofit leaders about that. Then I drilled down because I think it's much more powerful to hear an individual story—one person's story—than it is to hear lots of numbers or lots of different voices.
MZ: Did you face any obstacles when trying to find sources to interview, especially due to the pandemic?
HS: Yes, reporting was a big challenge due to the pandemic. Typically, I like to be in person and I actually like to embed within communities. That's an approach that I really value. It takes time to be there. And when you're there, you hear things and see things you don't get over the phone. But, we couldn't do that in the pandemic. So here I was, left with FaceTime, and I wanted listeners to know what it felt like to be in Chinatown. People had stopped going to Chinatown at the start of the pandemic because of all sorts of fears. But the power of a podcast is you can place someone in a situation or you can place someone in a community that they've never been to. And then you can close your eyes and feel like you're there.
The interview itself took hours because first I called Sakhone and interviewed him on FaceTime. Then the next day, I had him bring his phone to work with him. He starts work at six in the morning and as he was doing his job, I had him on FaceTime so I could take notes about what I was hearing and seeing, but he had to stop and do his job. Every time that would happen, he would do his work and I would observe, or we would take a break. The internet is funny in Oakland’s Chinatown—so we had to deal with those technical challenges too, but we made it happen.
MZ: What other challenges did you face during the reporting process?
HS: Some of the vendors, the local business people in Chinatown, were not that eager to talk at first because there's a rise in attacks against Asian American elders. For some, there's a fear that if they speak up that they’ll be targeted in terms of the attacks, but [Sakhone] had this amazing relationship with each of them. He helped to build this trust with them. There are also language issues because I don't speak Cantonese, which most of the vendors there in Chinatown do, and [Sakhone] doesn't either. But he built these relationships using a sort of sign language, plus body language he developed.
MZ: What limitations did you discover while learning about this solution?
HS: With solutions journalism, you don't want to paint anyone as a hero. You don't want to paint any intervention as being perfect because they're not.
In particular, with this intervention, I do feel like it's replicable, but it's costly in terms of the investment you have to make. And hiring and training each of these community ambassadors—and then there's a language issue. Ideally, there would be more investors who could speak the language. There's just a huge investment in everybody that's involved.
MZ: What impact would you say this story had?
HS: I have not personally followed up with Sakhone, but I have talked to other people in the community who, from that story, he's now being interviewed by several other outlets, which I think has really helped just raise support and awareness of the program itself.
MZ: What are some of your key takeaways after writing this story?
HS: People did write to me afterwards and say, “Thank you, this is what I needed to hear right now,” because there were people—particularly people I knew in the Asian American community—who were really overwhelmed with the rising numbers in hate incidents. I think people really want to know, well, what can I do? So I knew people who were avoiding the news, because they thought this is too much. And they said, but this is a story I did want to hear.
MZ: As an Asian American, did you consider adding your own perspective to this piece? Do you believe there’s ever an appropriate time to include your own input in a solutions story?
HS: Yes, I do. I think that maybe five, 10 years ago, there was just a sense that journalists are supposed to be completely objective and you shouldn't insert yourself. But I think with podcasting that has changed. There's also sometimes hesitation [where] people are like, “I don't want to cover my own community because I don't want to be pigeonholed,” or newsroom editors would say, “You shouldn't be covering that because you're too close to the issue.” I disagree with a lot of that.
I feel like there have been so many stories that are misrepresented in the media, and what we need is for people who are part of these communities to be telling their own stories.
In Sakhone’s piece in particular, I don't think my own voice is in that, but like I mentioned to you, I had that New York Times piece [“I’m Helping My Korean-American Daughter Embrace Her Identity to Counter Racism”] come out around the same time and that is actually my family story. I think there's definitely a place for that. In some cases, people have asked me, “Why don't we hear more from you?” I think sometimes that vulnerability and that honesty about your own experiences with things can be really powerful and effective. Also, when I interview people, I will share with them if I feel personally connected to the issue that I'm interviewing them about. I want them to know where I'm coming from too.